The white ones did the very most, over many generations! And then here facing this rich world with very less chances open to them sometimes, just because of colour. Comment Shorty, one more, PREjudgements has it in itself. The world is full of prejudgements of no reason. Didn't you know that? Slavery existed in virtually all precolonial African societies south of Sahara, and later - when Europeans entered the scene and began to buy slaves - most of the slave-hunting was done by blacks who sold their fellow Africans to the whites.
Today, nearly all slave trading in Africa is done by black people Comment experiEnce, experiEnce, experiEnce. Comment Apart from what N. To try it, as seen above, is simply wrong and IMHO way off the genuine intention of this thread. Anyway, to me PC is no more than crap. It just covers up the problems, treats the symptoms but does not cure the desease. PC does not and cannot change people.
And that is what is needed! In fact, I shall even go so far as to invite you, but you must understand something first: Your fantasy world will be destroyed. The politically correct wool which you are so desperately holding over your own eyes will be torn to shreds. I wish I could share your beliefs. In fact, I did believe everything that you do, when I was younger, at university. Unfortunately, I have seen far too much of reality since then. And although I would like to ignore it, since it is, generally speaking, an ugly thing, I can't. I can't, because I'm living with it and in it every day.
Do you really believe that some people have fewer chances because they are not white? The problem is not that you're a fool, Susanna, and I honestly don't think you are. You seem like an intelligent person. The problem is that you cannot understand the situation from where you are! And it isn't pc for us to tell you about it. BTW, I think you could benefit from a good History book. An impartial one, one without agenda. I don't know where you can find one, but I can assure you, it will be out of print. If I cannot be thanked for my ancestors' many many great accomplishments, if it is politically Incorrect for me to feel the pride about them that I should feel, then I refuse to be held accountable for their transgressions, either.
And the present is so bad that some people have even had to invent a way to forbid people talking about it. It's called 'political correctness. Your message posted while I was still composing mine Not only does PC not cure the disease, it actually makes the disease much worse. It creates an enormous conflict between what we observe and what we are allowed to say. This can lead us to only one thing: Comment Appears that there are a few others out there who see the crucial point about PC.
However, I do not intend to join a discussion about what mistreated people or their ancestors might have contributed to prejudice against them. Would you then propose to replace tall by long, and would you think this would change anything to the behaviour of others or to my pain being tall? Would it make me less tall, in the end? So is that reasonable?
Comment Blo Rakane, "Auch wenn ich mich hier oute, mir geht das ganze Gequatsche von political correctness tiereisch auf den Keks. The problem is actually much larger than PC. The problem is ignorance, in general. I won't comment on changes in German. Here are just three, in English: Using the plural is wrong unless you are talking about many groups of people. But the battle has been lost. But it actually means to kill one in Again, the wrong usage has one.
It means to "stand out from the herd", "to be clearly superior". Later it came to mean "obvious". Now it is used incorrectly almost all the time. There are unlimited examples of this nature. People, through ignorance, change the meanings of words, in all languages. They have always done so and probably always will.
Normally I am conservative about language, as you appear to be, although I don't lose any sleep over it. When it comes to possibly hurting the feelings of other people, I'm much more worried about hurting a people than languages. And that is where we clearly differ. My focus is on how and why someone got insulted, which in fact was TWO words, not one. Now please explain that to the lady who was insulted by a group of year-old Swiss boys. See if it makes her feel better. Tell her that it is the fault of English, or the US, that these boys picked up the phrase in Switzerland and decided to embarrass her.
Comment Blo Rakane "Gary: The point is that the area in which I live was as racially divided as South Africa, just a few decades ago. I merely reported to the people here what I saw, as a child. I was told not to drink at the "colored fountain" by my mother, because those people had "bad germs". I will also tell you that a friend of mine, 30 years old, would be very angry if I referred to him as "colored".
He would also hate being called a "Negro", and that word at one time had the same nuetral meaning as "Neger". In case you want to know why the subject of race would come up in the first place, we recently had a discussion of a trip he took to South Africa. He said, in his own words, "as a black man I felt very comfortable there. The society has changed radically. Or am I simply using common-sense? What you call "PC" I call simply politeness.
And that's a very poor way of respecting people. Abgesehen davon rechtfertigt diese Geschichte kein einziges Verbrechen, das heute von einem Sklavennachfahren begangen wird. Keiner hat gesagt, wie Rashunda das zu verstehen hat. Alle haben nur ihre Auffassung dargelegt.
- IBL - Derek Prince Ministries (@ibl_deutschland) • Instagram photos and videos;
- "Geil Neger"! (de).
- Dictionary Navigation;
- "Geil Neger"! (de) - Language lab: English ⇔ German Forums - colybuvyli.ml.
- Heart of Ice (BDSM Fantasy Romance) (A Not Quite Wicked Tale) by Brynn Paulin?
Es ist ihr gutes Recht, die Dinge so darzustellen, wie sie sie empfunden und in Erinnerung hat. Wer's nicht wissen will, soll nicht fragen. You have NOT understood me. First of all, we don't say "Afro-American of color". I won't write "Negroes in America" or "the Negro-race in American", because it would insult a lot of people who might read this. If necessity made him continue working for you, he would think you were a jerk.
I'm telling you how it IS here. I feel the same way. The point is to do anything possible to stop hurting people NOW. And "Geil Neger" hurt someone. Comment Susanna's example of the world where tall people are being discriminated against made me think that it would be ideal if those tall people then came to feel that there is nothing wrong about being tall, therefore the word tall is not bad at all. That way they would not be insulted by the word. It's the same with the words "negro", "black", "colo u red" etc. This is not the case. People still experience problems due to their colour, many people are not completely relaxed with the subject of races, even if they are not prejudiced.
It is a touchy subject, one is not always sure what will or won't hurt others. That's why I see no other way but to respect the wishes of those concerned. And since I can't ask everybody first, I will have to act in accordance with the language of the society I live in. Comment Shorty to Susanna: Don't know what Susanna believes, but as someone with university far behind me and living in the US, yes, I "really believe" it.
I'm astounded that you don't. I think you could benefit from being painted black, and turned loose to go find an apartment or house in a nice part of town and a high-paying job. But context is everything, as Susanna recognized in her original post, where she allowed that it could have two meanings, depending on intent. Once again intent and context is everything: Though the dictionary term "Jude" is not derogatory, merely descriptive, the history of past usage makes this a loaded term in Germany.
And some terms are completely forbidden in German--if a mathematical proof has several sub-solutions on the way to the grand finale, what do you call the very last one right before the Q. So this is just a round-about way of saying that German has the same issues with historically and socially loaded terms as English does, they're just a slightly different set due to our differing pasts.
In my opinion, ideological conservatives often bring up the term "PC" to ridicule those who use the words objected to as PC, as a way of defending as morally acceptable their practice of being insensitive to minority groups and justifying their discriminatory or racist behavior. Unfortunately, these reactionary opinion leaders have managed to convince a large part of the public that "PC" is merely a linguistic issue and converted them to their cause, and many people who would now call themselves "anti-PC" in no way could be considered racist, but are unfortunately unaware of the right-wing ideological underpinnings of the word and the campaign to introduce the "PC" concept into the sociopolitical arena as a way of defending right-wing extremism.
Comment Shorty and N. Of course, I didn't experience that in Washington DC it's the contrary to what I've pointed out concerning the chances. But do you think that's the case here, or lets say in Switzerland as well? Sorry but we all talk from different views of experience, don't you think? Does Washington DC then necessarily proove my words wrong for other, and perhaps huge parts of the world as well? History, do you really think white people lacked of arrogance like others before, or at the same time, if you like in history?
To be honest, when I sent my quite emotional postings directed at shorty. I guessed to be considered as naive and a dreamer afterwards perhaps I knew they were not very comprehensive concerning history facts. I do not think blacks were always just victims of the evil whites. But sometimes heart sees better then eyes, don't you think?
Look into your heart: Did and DO white people really very often had or have a lack arrogance in history and today? If so, we won't agree anyway on this point, which doesn't mean that I don't respect your points of view. Sorry but we all talk from Concerning your comments about PC. Please read my statements on it beforehand carefully once again if you like. You will discover that your opposing concerning my view on it just past the points I pointed out on it.
Perhaps I couldn't make them clear enough. I tried to make clear that PC is a difficult subject and NOT something which will change peoples minds. I think you know yourself that a reasonable kind of PC is just necessary Gary made very clear why though it always runs the danger to exaggerate.
If you look at my postings you will find that I consider this exaggerating as something dangerous in many points of view, and many of those I couldn't include for sure. But of course it's not a remedy for all kinds of deseases of discrimitation, contrary to that it can make it even worse itself and of course can turn into discrimination the other way round if exaggerated. Sorry that I couldn't make clear that I see this. Comment Sorry, the first paragraph in the second posting is partly a douple posting and should have been deleted.
There is no such thing as "affirmative action" in Europe. Go ahead and look for a flat in Paris. A friend of mine has experienced the following: Every time she called a landlord, telling him she was a teacher, thus having a regular and secure! And as soon as she showed up the reaction was "Oh - that's you??? Or dropping into an estate agent's: She'd be told there's nothing on offer.
Her white friend was shown at least a dozen of offers just 10 minutes later. Another ashaming incident happened just two weeks ago. I went to the Netherlands for shopping with a friend and her brother. On the journey back we had to change trains in a little station in the middle of nowhere. My friend and her brother. Hasn't that come through to you yet? Afterwards I thought, I should have provokingly asked whether Jews were still allowed to enter the country and to use trains.
That might have shut him up So much for Shorty's "quite the contrary! Schulanfang nach den Sommerferien. Mein Sohn wechselte die Schule 5. Klasse Gymnasium und ich wollte ihn gern in das neue Klassenzimmer bringen. Auf dem Treppenaufgang Kinder der 6. Sehen uns und rufen: Yup, Iyke and me. The answer was definitely not friendly, and I do not want to repeat it here because I think that for a German cop it is very shameful to say something like it.
So my snappy comment backfired big time. Comment Gary, if I missed your point, I'm sorry. However, from your germane considerations I read that we perfectly agree in that we both wish all races to be well respected by each other. It is the way how to express our respect that appears to make the difference. I respect and understand your one. I hope you do in return. Peter, I have not the impression that the word 'Jude' in Germany is problematic. No, 'Juden' are, again, well-established in Germany and it is good that way. I think to remember having heared that regularly at Maths lectures.
There always were some who exaggerated about. But I have the impression it becomes a more or less normally used word. Another thought about some of the indoctrinatory comments on respect: The other side of respect is tolerance. You demand not to tell others how to feel. But you tell others what to say and what not. This is not only intolerant, it is totalitarian. Even if it hurts: Lack of tolerance leads to lack of respect leads to separation leads to repression. It may sound simplistic, but it's the way it works. In this sense, PC is a tool of intolerance.
Ideen rund ums Jahr by Daniela Auer on Apple Books
And that's one of the problems with it. That's far too loaden. Comment previous post, 2nd paragraph, 2nd sentence should read "No German Jew We perfectly agree in that such experiences are a shame for civilized mankind. I am sure every anti-PC shares that opinion. Comment again Stef, Andrea: And as I told, I am just reflecting my experience so far.
Comment I just got curious about those "normal" words we are talking and arguing about and around and had a quick look into my "Wahrig", dating from I fully agree with that. Comment Maira What do you tell your child in such situations? How do you explain? How do you give him the strength to handle such situations? Comment Good idea, Stef. According to them there'd also be a "normal" way of using "Neger".
Maybe here we've come across some kind of "cultural difference" within the German-speaking areas. Might that be a reason for the different perception of some words' nature? Comment Stef Still, if there is a chance that I might tread on someone's toes, it still doesn't suffice to know that there is "also" a neutral meaning of the word.
Susanna Why would there be prejudices against tall people in the first place, unless many tall people had done something, across many generations, that earned them a specific reputation? Shorty Thu Sep 18 Thus it would have been the fault of people of colour themselves to be treated that horrible in Southern Africa and America in a historical period which is not too far away in both examples.
As many examples given reveal hidden and open discrimination carries on in everyday life. Your statement implied that black people deserve that perhaps! That's why my answer became like it was. As we all know: Your statement to be honest simply annoyed me. Sorry if I got you wrong but if you take a close look at your answer to it, you will see it is difficult to understand it another way. Comment Stef, that's interesting. I never contested that. Well, I have spent my 2 cents to the topic but need to complete some work now.
I will look again later this day or weekend. Peace and love to anybody. I think it also always depends on how one uses their voice to say word. When I was a little kid, I was just really dark with curly dark brown hair, brown eyes and in summer I always had a very deep tan.
Again, the word Neger. But in this case, I really do not think she had anything bad in my about the use of Neger. In this case, it was just to express what I looked like. Das ist immer schwierig. Dann sage ich ihm noch, dass er weiss, wer er ist und das er auf sich stolz sein soll.
Und ganz egal, was andere sagen, wir haben uns und unsere Familie. Aber das ist alles so unbefriedigend, so kommt es mir zumindest vor. Was sagst du denn deinem Kind in solchen Situationen?? Spanish or Portuguese, from negro black, from Latin nigr-, niger Date: Why would there be prejudices against black people in the first place, unless many black people had done something, across many generations, that earned them a specific reputation?
Not necessarily all black people, but many. Comment Shorty, please tell me what you wanted to point out otherwise. And if it's that what you wanted to say, please explain frankly and detailed what you mean, as you threw it into this discussion that unclear. And thus you made it impossiple to react to it properly. If PC as you say forbids you to speak frankly, then you might understand that such a hint might cause a lot of irritation and thus would perhaps have been better not to be given at all, as you can't assume people to understand correctly what you mean unless you explain it detailed.
Every interpretation can just be an assumption as MINE above and as MY reaction to this answer and that makes it a very tricky and irritating method in such a discussion. Given this anyway huge potential of misunderstanding in this discussion such hints might not be helpful. Shorty, please tell me how to interpret your hint another way than I did. You left no chance to discuss your point properly and without assuming anything. I remember having seen the "Mohr" here in Cologne's Chocolate Museum run by the trade mark owning company. Unfortunately I do not recall their recent explanation why and how they have come off using it.
Meaning of "Sommerregen" in the German dictionary
Der Mohr kann gehn. I presume it's a citation, but unfortunately I have no idea where or whom from. Comment Blo I quote you: And here you will find the entry I quoted earlier.
Interesting enough, when looking up "Neger" on www. I wouldn't like to run the risk of insulting someone, only because a word may "also" be used neutrally. On the word "Jude" - I do feel a sort of hesitation before using it and I know other people do, too. And that is although I do not believe in any kind of inferiority of jews! It's because in the past, the word "Jude" was very much used as an insult.
And thanks very much Susanna for pointing towards shorty's implication that the discrimination of a certain kind of people would have to be based on something wrong they had done. I meant to comment on that but lost it on the way I really agree with Susanna and would like Shorty to rethink what he wrote there! Stef Isn't the quotation "Der Mohr hat I have studied biology and therefore, I have to disagree. There ARE different races with different characteristics, not only with different colors.
I am aware of the fact that this is not mentioned in the public, because people tend to misunderstand this fact and to misuse it for their own purposes. Different characteristics do not mean different qualities! And, the genes are not everything, they are only a part of every person, the cultural background, personal experiences, etc. All humans are equal in the sense of rights and qualities , but they are not the same.
I have the opinion, that "Neger" is a normal German word, too. It is derived from the latin word for black, actually. But, despite of that, I would not dare to use this word in the public, because most people think it is offensive. Comment Chris Interesting what you write about different races.
I cannot judge this because I have not studied Biology or anything related to genetics and such. But if it is true, there is really nothing bad about it as you said, because different features need not be better or worse. Being a woman myself I know that men have different features which are not necessarily better or worse either. Although this is a much more relaxed subject with many jokes about it! But that has got nothing to do with PC.
I don't use them coz I feel and know that other people get hurt by it. This awareness is my motivation. And it does't make a fuckin' difference whether it is considered to be political correct or not. PC just replaces one word by another. Which is more than enough for most people. They do not want to think about this kind of stuff.
And that is exactely what PC gives to them. I'm a bit surprised that Susanna gives so much about PC since she gave the best argument against it: This in fact eventually leads to what I wrote above. And I really can't think of what that could possibly be good for. Comment wdys You understood my point.
En contraire, differences are good! Differences are the key feature of evolution.
Ideen rund ums Jahr
Differences are the whole point that sexual reproduction has been "invented", that means, existing features are mixed up and new features are created that may or may not present an advantage for the individual. Features that are an advantage are kept, others are dropped. Just a very short summmary of evolution. This is true for plants and animals as well as for humans. I think it is sad that there are tendencies in the society to neglect differences and to make everything equal. It seems easier or more fair at first view, but at a second glance, it does not bring forward a deeper understanding of one another.
To look at your example, I believe men can understand women better and vice versa if they see and accept differences rather then neglecting them. My turn to say that this is what I wanted to say but didn't find the words for. Very odd; it's almost as though previously open-minded people had been brainwashed by skinheads. No wonder there's so much animus against inclusive language among German speakers, if they take this as the final word on the subject.
I couldn't fathom why otherwise rational and even liberal people seemed to regard "PC" as the next worst thing to a Schimpfwort. Now I have more of a clue where they're coming from, but it's still discouraging. Stef's example suggests that Wahrig may take a more sensible approach; I hope that's the case. Comment The whole point about language which Duden seems to have opted to overlook is that the connotations of words do change over time. Some words that were once considered neutral do in fact become insensitive, not because of the intention of all speakers, but because of their effect on some hearers.
It's not an attack on the integrity of the language. In a chat room a while back Nadja I think cited the example "Weib," which might be a useful comparison.
iTunes is the world's easiest way to organize and add to your digital media collection.
Why aren't German linguistic purists also claiming that "Weib" is a wonderful historic word whose original neutrality we should proudly defend? Why aren't they worried that if we discard "Weib" we will also have to discard "Frau"? Could it be because there are more women than blacks in German-speaking areas? Several people have expressed rhetorical dismay at the idea of PC language's being a kind of slippery slope.
If we can't use Neger, so the argument seems to go, and if even Farbiger is dubious, then all we have left is Schwarzer, and what if "they" take that away from "us" too? Oh, no, we'll be forced to use unaesthetic neologisms like "Afro-Deutsch. The seldom-acknowledged emotion here seems to have to do with ownership of the language by its native speakers, and fear of losing control.
I'm ducking as I say this, but yes, that fear does seem, from this more distant perspective, like a fear or dislike of outsiders. So to that degree it does seem to have something in common with the kinds of unacknowledged emotions that fuel racism. However, the anti-PC position does indeed seem to mask some inherently quite conservative assumptions: I wonder if the opponents of PC really mean to defend these views as well, which seem implicit in their position, and perhaps even more so in its emotional intensity.
On a side note, back to Jude: But maybe I've got that backwards? Anyway, I liked Peter's point that every language has its own delicate issues, and in fact, it suggests a further analogy that might be helpful.
Synonyms and antonyms of Sommerregen in the German dictionary of synonyms
German hypersensitivity to anti-semitism, as I understand it, is not based solely on the Nazi era, but rather on deeply ingrained social and cultural attitudes that have persisted both in Germany and in many other countries, both before WW2 and up to the present day, both intentionally and unconsciously. Similarly, American hypersensitivity to racism is not based solely on the slavery era, but on actual racist attitudes in our own and other societies, in the past and also in the present, in intent and also in effect.
Limiting a discussion of racially insensitive language to the intentional historical perpetrators of the slave trade, or to America as an instance supposedly isolated in place or time, IMO seriously misses the point. I fully agree with him on that, it is obvious that the reasons lie in history. I dare to propose therefore, that PC born out of this racist problem in the us, to avoid or hamper any future continuation of this, does and will not directly transfer as a policy to european countries, e.
Which was not the case.. This is an excellent point. With that said, the conclusion seems to be that every country has its own sensitive points. However, I suggest that you consider this line one step further. It is not just different languages and countries that have their own sets of sensitivities. Within a single country the US may be a particularly suitable example, although I do think that Germany qualifies as well different ethnic or racial groups also have their own sensitive points.
Whether we like it or not, we tend to view our environment through our own sets of filters. I am making this point because I am convinced that a certain self-awareness of the "filters" one uses when perceiving and interpreting one's own environment is crucial for any understanding of such sensitive issues such as PC, hate language, overt or latent racism, etc.
In other words, we may not always have the full picture because we don't live the other's life and that's, IMHO, just a fact of life, not an expression of some sort of racially biased malice. Comment hm I'm sorry, but can't follow your arguments for several reasons. I don't know if you bothered to read my postings or to read the text following the copied link http: Somehow I don't think so, because that would explain what you wrote.
Discussing PC only as an issue of language only is narrow minded and condemned to miss the point of critics to the effect that anti PC in general is considered to be either racism or a conservative view on language. Of course you will find people with both motivations too but that shouldn't be the measurement, should it? I was born and raised in the fromer GDR. A country with a degree of PC all of you pro PC's would dream of.
This country also breaded an unbelievable degree of racism as well as hate of foreigners uncovered to the rest of the world a view years after the German unification. And I'm sure we made it to the headlines of every little newspaper in the US too. Thinking that changing a language would change peoples mind, could effectively fight racism or even change society is IMHO not only wishful thinking. For me it is a dangerous case of turning its back on reality. And, after all, this is based on experience. An experience you yet have to make in the US.
I really hope that it will not happen. But I'm afraid it is inevitable thinking back to the events in LA a view years ago. If you would bother to shed a bit more light on the reality of PC and look into it a bit more detailed you will find that PC seems to mask the real racism of a society rahter than vice versa. PC is for sure a good idea, but I'm afraid it does more bad than good because it will make you lose sight of what is really going on behind the scenes. If you wanna take that risk I prefer fighting racism by changing people If you once have changed peoples mind, language will follow.
And it will not work the other way. Und im Zuge der damit einhergehenden Diskussion kam es mitunter auch zu einer normativen Durchsetzung der zugrunde liegenden antidiskriminatorischen Ideen. Sorry, just a typo ;-. Comment Non native speaker Disclaimer: My last posting is not meant to be offensive and does neither imply PC would assit, support, cultivate or even boost racsim nor that pro PC's wouldn't have the best intentions as far as racism is concerned.
It just reflects my humble opinion on PC based on experience and engrained anti racism. Comment charlie, I did go to the link you suggested. It was pretty tough reading for me, but the impression I got is that people here in the US are grappling with many of the same problems. I don't know if I can express this very well.
When groups of people, no matter how well-principled, take it upon themselves to dictate changes in language, the results in my opinion usually do not work. Because I am an extremely independent and rather non-traditional person by nature, I'm no fan of PC either. I have many of the same worries about the whole thing as you do. I'm merely an advocate of politeness, of treating people with respect.
For me, that's the end of it. In situations where I suspect a word will insult someone, I will go out of my way to pick another. Meaning of "Sommerregen" in the German dictionary. Definition of Sommerregen in the German dictionary im Sommer fallender, nicht besonders kalter Regen. Synonyms and antonyms of Sommerregen in the German dictionary of synonyms. Examples of use in the German literature, quotes and news about Sommerregen. Ein Sommerregen ist erfreulich, ein Regensommer ganz abscheulich. Das Plagen ist der Sommerregen der Liebe. August Petermann, Carl Eduard Meinicke, Dann komme ich mir vor wie ein Blattim Sommerregen , das gierig jeden einzelnen Wassertropfen aufnimmt.
Gotthard Oswald Marbach,